Saves

Lairian · Post by **Lairian** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 2:31 am

Exactly how much does a point of "save vs ..." give you? I know it's a chance the gods will protect you from a spell, but is 1 point equal to 1 percent, or is it some other bit of math?

kiri · Post by **kiri** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:38 am

Anything having to do with the mathmatical parts of code is really Slart 's expertise, so I turn the mic over to him.

Slart · Post by **Slart** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:39 pm

Each additional -1 to your save vs. spell is worth the same as another level to your character. All other things being equal, it works out to about a five percent better chance of making your saving throw; if it was 80% before, it'll be 85% if you drop your save vs. spell another point. The chance of making your saving throw starts at 50% if you are the same level as the mob, bottoms out at 5%, and maxes out at 95%.

Note that negative save vs. spell is good, and positive is bad.

Croplin · Post by **Croplin** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:49 pm

explain this to me:

Save VS Spell: -4 (Before)
-----
Object 'headpiece of Frinn strange' type armor, extra flags glow.
Weight 5, value 16810, level 41.
Armor class is 11.
Affects save vs breath by -20.
Affects moves by 100.
Affects hit roll by 3.
Affects damage roll by -10.
Affects wisdom by 2.
Affects intelligence by 3.
-----
Save VS Spell: -24 (After)

Is this just a bug in the item or is there a reson for this?

Slart · Post by **Slart** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:25 pm

Merc supports several different save vs. <whatever> effects. We only support one. All save vs. <whatever> effects on items are applied to save vs. spell in BR.

That means no matter whether the item says it's save vs. breath, save vs. rod, save vs. paralysis, save vs. petrification, save vs. unbelievable stupidity, or save vs. your mom, the thing that it will actually change on your char is save vs. spell. Saving throws come up rarely enough as it is; having five different ones was sort of pointless.

Anakin · Post by **Anakin** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 4:15 pm

Slart wrote:Merc supports several different save vs. <whatever> effects. We only support one. All save vs. <whatever> effects on items are applied to save vs. spell in BR.

That means no matter whether the item says it's save vs. breath, save vs. rod, save vs. paralysis, save vs. petrification, save vs. unbelievable stupidity, or save vs. your mom, the thing that it will actually change on your char is save vs. spell. Saving throws come up rarely enough as it is; having five different ones was sort of pointless.

Is there anyway that you can probably code that? I'm in need of at least a -2 on that.

Everybody · Post by **Everybody** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:22 pm

As Slart said, we only support save vs. spell. If you need a save vs. your mom, I recommend finding new hiding places around the house, or in town. I believe the library is usually a good bet because they have public computers and then your mom would believe you were studying.

Anakin · Post by **Anakin** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 6:29 pm

That is really something. Not to mention I am a volunteer librarian.

(The things you learn from the internet--my volunteer work was for good cause, I guess it gotten better)

Stars · Post by **Stars** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 1:12 pm

If I have an object that has -1 for every one of the save vs categories, then would they all would be applied to save vs spell, equaling a total of -5?
How does it work against higher level mobs? Let's pretend that I have a -50 save vs spell at level 10, then I am assuming that I save as if I were level 60. If I would have 95% chance of being protected against a mob my own level (I hope), then how far would my % drop if I fought higher level mobs? If my level 10 fought a level 60 spellcaster, would it be at 50%?
I have so rarely seen "the gods protect you" message no matter what my save vs spell and level is.
I kill mobs many times my own level, and the spells go through. Is the "the mob thwarts your attempt" message mean that the mob saved vs blindness? What about with fireballs and such? I have never seen a "mob thwarts your acid blast" message. Maybe the damage is reduced when the save is made.
Is a breath weapon a "spell" that can be saved against?
It would sure be nice to counter some of the nasty spells and breath weapons some of the time, and know that it is not just a mostly useless stat.

-Stars

Everybody · Post by **Everybody** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:59 am

For your first question, yes. All the save vs. <whatever> affects are just added up and combined into your save vs. spell.
Alright, the way I understand Slart's first response is: each level above you a mob is, your base chance to save vs. any spells they cast goes down by 5%, vice versa if you're above them in levels (each level higher you are gains you 5%). So, having a -50 save vs. spell would leave you at 95% chance to save against any spells cast at you by casters up to 40 (or maybe 41) levels above you. If they're 50 levels above you, you'd have a 50% chance to save against it.
Next part... saving against a spell does different things depending on what the spell is. The specific message of "God protects <playername>" shows up when a mob tries to cast curse at you during battle and you save. When a mob thwarts your attempt, yes, it means they saved vs. your blind spell. Most damage-dealing spells do half damage (I believe) when the mob (or the player) saves against them. There's also some modifiers in the code that make it easier (or harder) to save against some spells.
I believe breath attacks are spells that you save against, however, I believe they usually are in the half-damage category... since all of the breath spells are hp-based, and mobs' hps are enormous, it doesn't really help you out too much. I'm not sure if there's any relation between your save vs. spell and the chances of your packs burning when a breath attack hits. There might be.

disaster · Post by **disaster** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:54 am

maybe this should go here, maybe in code suggestions, and maybe it's already being done. for spells such as blindness, etc, which don't do damage, how about if flaming items add a certain percentage (maybe not as high as 5, but something) to the chance that the spell works. it seems to make sence to me, get the power from the flaming gear, better shance the spell works.

Divebomb · Post by **Divebomb** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:51 pm

What's funny about this is there's so few mobs that actually cast spells. Except in my areas where they run rampant... and as people who have fought there know, the save vs. spell is probably the least of your worries.