*blinks at Kiri innocently*Simple Things
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Bluestar
- Mud Addict
- Posts: 447
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:43 pm
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We need more grammar help files! Help spelling would be greatly appreciated as well *nod self* It would go something like this:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PICK UP A DICTIONARY EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE!!!!
*flutter*
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PICK UP A DICTIONARY EVERY ONCE IN AWHILE!!!!
*flutter*
~Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.~
-Ralph Waldo Emerson-
-Ralph Waldo Emerson-
There is a "help spelling".
There is also a "help slang".
"Help apostrophe" is silly, in my opinion.
When I first read it, I was annoyed.
Now I find it only slightly amusing (sometimes you just have to laugh).
If we were really that concerned about correct spelling and grammar, perhaps we could include some sort of checker within the MUD program. It could autocorrect anything we type wrong.
Or is it not that big of a deal?
Well, then get rid of the "help apostrophe" file, please.
At least don't make it sound so insulting. I am an English major, and I make numerous mistakes during "spur of the moment" writing, while chatting on BR. It is not as if we have four weeks to write a paper that comprises 25% of our MUD grade for the semester.
There is also a "help slang".
"Help apostrophe" is silly, in my opinion.
When I first read it, I was annoyed.
Now I find it only slightly amusing (sometimes you just have to laugh).
If we were really that concerned about correct spelling and grammar, perhaps we could include some sort of checker within the MUD program. It could autocorrect anything we type wrong.
Or is it not that big of a deal?
Well, then get rid of the "help apostrophe" file, please.
At least don't make it sound so insulting. I am an English major, and I make numerous mistakes during "spur of the moment" writing, while chatting on BR. It is not as if we have four weeks to write a paper that comprises 25% of our MUD grade for the semester.
Last edited by Stars on Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The stars brightly shine upon our world, a constant reminder of our origin. We are stars.
I understand the difference between formal and informal writing, and I don't generally get in people's faces about spelling and/or grammar errors unless I feel like it might help save them future embarrassment in a more important setting. That said, I don't understand the indignation with which people respond to the idea that they might take a little more care with how they express themselves -- in any medium. Somehow, when I try to help educate people, I become the bad guy. This is ridiculous to me, but moreover it is patently unfortunate for everyone.
Even the most minor incremental effort at proofreading will improve the image you project to the world immensely. Even if you don't care what other people think, you yourself should take pride in this image for the same reasons you'd take pride in anything else you do. Ten years ago, people did take a certain amount of pride in writing well online. If you think the environment online today is elitist, believe me when I tell you that you wouldn't have even wanted to have been wired during the early nineties. That elitism is now largely gone in most circles, believe it or not, which is good for everyone. The pride that went away with it, sadly, I miss a great deal. I like to think there's a happy middle ground somewhere between being an outwardly obnoxious language snob and not caring at all.
Being online and expressing yourself frequently with the written word is a tremendous opportunity to constantly improve your writing skills. No matter who you are, what you do for a living, or how well you already write, eventually you will run into a situation that makes you wish you could write better. It doesn't seem important now, but it will seem important then. In real life, your opinions simply carry more weight when you articulate them clearly and correctly -- especially in writing. Spell checkers are only part of the solution. They are nice, but insufficient. Indeed, I generally refuse to use them at all on the grounds that I am better at it than they are. Over-reliance on spell checkers is the biggest reason you see more mistakes in the newspaper, in magazines, and even on billboards or TV ads.
If you want to tell me that people just don't care about this stuff, I am forced to concede that you are right. I've seen it myself. I take issue, however, with the notion that people shouldn't care, or that the idea that people should care is somehow insulting to people who don't. Rabies's "help apostrophe" is over the top, yes (it draws heavily from a Bob the Angry Flower cartoon which can be found here). The idea behind it (and the comic), though, is that people should care, and the only way to make them care is to shame them into it. On some days, I have a hard time disagreeing.
(Please note that I am not calling out Stars specifically here, but an entire mindset I encounter all the time. This is not meant for anyone to take personally. Consider it food for thought.)
This is much like the issue with ancient high-level morts (you know who you are), in a way. I can explain, beg, plead, cajole, bribe, re-explain, prod, whine, blather, joke, draw analogies, make metaphors, lead, scream, swear, sigh, try explaining one last time, or even hold my breath until I turn blue. Some people will never understand what I'm talking about. Others will simply refuse to understand. This is the last I'll say publicly about either issue...for a while, at least.
Even the most minor incremental effort at proofreading will improve the image you project to the world immensely. Even if you don't care what other people think, you yourself should take pride in this image for the same reasons you'd take pride in anything else you do. Ten years ago, people did take a certain amount of pride in writing well online. If you think the environment online today is elitist, believe me when I tell you that you wouldn't have even wanted to have been wired during the early nineties. That elitism is now largely gone in most circles, believe it or not, which is good for everyone. The pride that went away with it, sadly, I miss a great deal. I like to think there's a happy middle ground somewhere between being an outwardly obnoxious language snob and not caring at all.
Being online and expressing yourself frequently with the written word is a tremendous opportunity to constantly improve your writing skills. No matter who you are, what you do for a living, or how well you already write, eventually you will run into a situation that makes you wish you could write better. It doesn't seem important now, but it will seem important then. In real life, your opinions simply carry more weight when you articulate them clearly and correctly -- especially in writing. Spell checkers are only part of the solution. They are nice, but insufficient. Indeed, I generally refuse to use them at all on the grounds that I am better at it than they are. Over-reliance on spell checkers is the biggest reason you see more mistakes in the newspaper, in magazines, and even on billboards or TV ads.
If you want to tell me that people just don't care about this stuff, I am forced to concede that you are right. I've seen it myself. I take issue, however, with the notion that people shouldn't care, or that the idea that people should care is somehow insulting to people who don't. Rabies's "help apostrophe" is over the top, yes (it draws heavily from a Bob the Angry Flower cartoon which can be found here). The idea behind it (and the comic), though, is that people should care, and the only way to make them care is to shame them into it. On some days, I have a hard time disagreeing.
(Please note that I am not calling out Stars specifically here, but an entire mindset I encounter all the time. This is not meant for anyone to take personally. Consider it food for thought.)
This is much like the issue with ancient high-level morts (you know who you are), in a way. I can explain, beg, plead, cajole, bribe, re-explain, prod, whine, blather, joke, draw analogies, make metaphors, lead, scream, swear, sigh, try explaining one last time, or even hold my breath until I turn blue. Some people will never understand what I'm talking about. Others will simply refuse to understand. This is the last I'll say publicly about either issue...for a while, at least.
While I agree with nearly everything you have written, Slart, I cannot change my opinion about our current "help apostrophe".
It does not shame me, and most likely does not shame others. I am confident in my writing skills, thank you. I am insulted by the tone of "help apostrophe", whether or not it is meant for me. Some people often take a suggestion for improvement as an insult, especially when it is publically displayed for everyone to see. I have seen this. Our help file for apostrophe, however, is a blatant insult. Maybe it was meant to be funny, or maybe not. That is not clear. What is clear, is that it is definately ugly. Little things like this can turn people off from something they might otherwise enjoy.
Perhaps some people think I bother too much about little things. The way I look at it, there are no little things, especially when everything, from complex multi-celled organisms to a community of MUD addicts, is comprised of "little" things. If something starts to go wrong with your little things, then your big things are going to suffer as well.
You mentioned pride, Slart. I take pride in Barren Realms. I love this place and all the people that come here. While perfection is impossible, we can do our best to correct (or not correct) that which is in our control. I feel embarrassed about things that might not make us appear as wonderful and fun as we are.
"Help apostrophe", as it is now, is ineffectual, unnecessary, insulting and should be removed or changed.
It does not shame me, and most likely does not shame others. I am confident in my writing skills, thank you. I am insulted by the tone of "help apostrophe", whether or not it is meant for me. Some people often take a suggestion for improvement as an insult, especially when it is publically displayed for everyone to see. I have seen this. Our help file for apostrophe, however, is a blatant insult. Maybe it was meant to be funny, or maybe not. That is not clear. What is clear, is that it is definately ugly. Little things like this can turn people off from something they might otherwise enjoy.
Perhaps some people think I bother too much about little things. The way I look at it, there are no little things, especially when everything, from complex multi-celled organisms to a community of MUD addicts, is comprised of "little" things. If something starts to go wrong with your little things, then your big things are going to suffer as well.
You mentioned pride, Slart. I take pride in Barren Realms. I love this place and all the people that come here. While perfection is impossible, we can do our best to correct (or not correct) that which is in our control. I feel embarrassed about things that might not make us appear as wonderful and fun as we are.
"Help apostrophe", as it is now, is ineffectual, unnecessary, insulting and should be removed or changed.
The stars brightly shine upon our world, a constant reminder of our origin. We are stars.
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for education. I do not think it would be inappropriate to include more grammar help files for those who are interested. However, because English is a confusing language, our list of help files might increase significantly.
The very first, and most vital, rule in "educating" those around you is not to insult the people you are trying to help. Show respect for others, and most people will have respect for you. The whole purpose of these last two posts is to request that "help apostrophe" be toned down. Even Slart agrees that it is over the top. Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm sure that somewhere in my words some disparaging insult might be deciphered by someone. Please don't feel that way. I think I just talk too much. I'm done now.
The very first, and most vital, rule in "educating" those around you is not to insult the people you are trying to help. Show respect for others, and most people will have respect for you. The whole purpose of these last two posts is to request that "help apostrophe" be toned down. Even Slart agrees that it is over the top. Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone. I'm sure that somewhere in my words some disparaging insult might be deciphered by someone. Please don't feel that way. I think I just talk too much. I'm done now.
The stars brightly shine upon our world, a constant reminder of our origin. We are stars.
I must admit, and most older players on BR know, that I am not a good writer. I have improved though. Spell checkers are my best friend. I know I rely on a spell checker more than I should. As for humiliation being a motivator to improve writing it sure worked for me. I remember many years ago I was chatting and sent weather instead of whether to the chat channel. I realized my mistake immediately, but that didn't help the ridicule I received from another player. Since that time I have tried to be more careful with the messages I send, but I still mess up and on occasion get bashed for it.
I guess I was shamed into caring more about what I write. Unfortunatly for me it is not something that comes easily.
I guess I was shamed into caring more about what I write. Unfortunatly for me it is not something that comes easily.
